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teenagers gifts - 11/14/2008 2:42:19 PM
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momtrying99
Posts: 3
Joined: 11/14/2008
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AM I just old fashion? Out of the loop with parenting? I read the e-mails about teenage co-op sleepovers and it is hard for me to even think parents are "parenting" this way---non-christian much less christian.
But then I think of my situation and I realize that we are in confusing and trying time and I also need other parents to help me. I have a 13 yr. old daughter who gave a male friend (13 yr old) boxers as a present. I am very angry because 1) I can't believe I even had to discuss with this young lady that it is a very inappropriate gift --that she can give boxers to her husband when she is married 2) she went against my wishers and did it anyway 3)her fathers doesn't think it a big deal --maybe 1 day of restriction. I see so differently. Parents of teenagers----How would you feel if your daughter gave such a gift? What would you do if your son received boxers from a girl that age---or any teenager? Really angry but willing to listen to other Christian parents.
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RE: teenagers gifts - 11/14/2008 3:01:05 PM
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pbaribeault
Posts: 1097
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I don't know about the significance of boxers as a gift, and I can see why maybe your daughter didn't catch your reasoning behind your decision to forbid her to buy or give them. However, the fact is that you did forbid her to do it...
(Or did you? Did you say "you may not" or did you say, "I think it's inappropriate"? That's important, because a teen ignoring your opinion and a teen ignoring your commands are drastically different things)
If she spent her money on something you had forbidden her to buy, the logical consiquence is that you no longer provide her with money until she somehow 'redeems' her act of money-disobedience and shows you that she plans to submit her spending to your rules in the future.
However, if she simply spent her money on something that you advised her against, I don't think you have a leg to stand on. Ignoring advice or having a different opinion from your parents is normal and not the slightest bit disrespectful. I don't think anyone should be punished in any way for going against parental advice.
Next time if you want her to obey you no matter what she thinks, give her a command. If you want to change her mind, do a better job of convincing her, and confirm to know what she is thinking after your discussion. Allowing your wishes to be known, then reacting with punishment is a terribly mixed message that you don't want to go forward with in parenting a teen. Teens really really need to know what's a rule and what's a choice.
After you've dealt with the obedience question, you need to deal with the idea of how firmly you intend to guide her relationships at her age. If you feel that the choice to offer undergarments as a gift indicates an inappropriate level of personal intimacy with this male friend, you may wish to discuss with your husband plans to restrict her interactions with boys. This is not a punishment about the gift, it's just that the gift was an eye opener that you need a plan that suits your values.
Leave a little time, so your daughter doesn't jump to the conclusion that it's about the boxers, then tell her what you hope for in her romantic life, the choices you hope she will make, and the rules, procedures and restrictions that you are implementing for this school year regarding inter-gender relationships. Tell her that you will renegotiate on each August 1st for the next school year, and that if she wants any changes she should be prepared to make an adult argument for them at that time.
Also, remember that anger is never an appropriate 'home base' to parent from. It's a phase you pass through, and it gives you both information and motivation, but you always parent from a calm, reasoned, just, loving home base. Fear is also not a smart home base -- are you coming from some fear as well as anger? Do you think you might be 'loosing her'? Don't let these feelings cause you to react in un-thought-out and counter-productive ways. Take your parenting task seriously before the Lord who assigned it to you, and make your choices in a level-headed forward-thinking way.
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RE: teenagers gifts - 11/14/2008 3:24:50 PM
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momtrying99
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Thank you for your response. I think I stated several questions and complicated things---punishment, angry at disobedience (it was disobedience), disagreement with husband over a big issue vs. a small issue, the actual gift itself, etc. I hear you about being angry but not showing it to my daughter, but trying to guide her to better choices. You bring up another issue: fear. I'll have to think about that.
But I am still wondering if other Christian parents would be concerned if their daughter gave such a gift or if their young son received such a gift. Is it something that is no big deal nowadays? Just wondering.
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RE: teenagers gifts - 11/14/2008 4:06:47 PM
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shadowspring
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Yes, I would be very concerned.
I would make certain that my daughter had zero opportunity to be alone with this boy or any other boy for that matter. I would assume that her choice of gift means she is thinking about, er, "romantic relations" and I would pray for the Lord's protection on her life.
This comes from a place of experience. We cannot stop our children from making rebellious choices, but we can make it extremely difficult for them to carry them out to fruition.
My own dd was well trained in the Word of God and loved the Lord with all her heart as a child. She would still claim to love the Lord, I am sure. But it was not a strong enough love to keep her from compromise when she began to be curious about, er, "romantic relationships".
The thing is, we did not find out until way after the fact. We thought our daughter was totally supervised the whole time, but we found out that even fifteen minutes between parent checks was enough time to get into trouble.
The boy eventually broke up with my dd, leaving her disillusioned and broken-hearted. It was not until then that our dd, who never once stopped taking part in family devotions with us morning and night, confessed her fall.
So DO NOT ASSUME that all is innocent. Assume it is not innocent. Buying someone underwear seldom is. 
_____________________________
"Blessed is the man...whose delight is in the law of the Lord, and in His law meditates day and night. He will be like a tree planted by rivers of water..." from Psalm 1
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RE: teenagers gifts - 11/14/2008 4:47:47 PM
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kernsfamily
Posts: 1428
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From: Dallas (originally Detroit)
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It MAY be all innocent...and, there may be more there.
I am VERY good friends with the wife of one of my wife's cousins.....she's given ME boxers for Christmas/Birthdays.....because my "nickname" is Goofy (just like the Disney character).....so, if she finds a cool pair of "GOOFY" boxers, she'll get them for me....along with a "Goofy" wall clock, desk pen, ties, dress shirts, sweatshirt, etc...etc...over the years....
Perhaps it was something like that....a pair of boxers that had more to do with "content" (character on them, for instance), than the actual fact that they are undies......and, was just thinking of them as a FUN gift....with nothing else intended....
Sit down and have a long talk with her...and figure out what her "thought process" was as to WHY she insisted on giving such a gift.....then, take it from there....
though, you've certainly got to "nip the disobedience" in the bud....you told her NO...and that should have been it...
_____________________________
Proud dad of 3 great girls....Erin, Emilie and Elise
Blessed to have all of them in a "totally awesome" public elementary school!
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RE: teenagers gifts - 11/14/2008 4:56:53 PM
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zoebob
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I agree, I would have a big issue with this. If dad refuses to discipline/punish appropriately I would at least have a serious talk with her about this as a woman to woman thing.
_____________________________
L-R: DD1, Ellies DS2, DD2, Ellies DS1
L-R: Ellies DD1, Ellies DD2, DS, Ellies DS3
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RE: teenagers gifts - 11/14/2008 8:29:38 PM
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momtrying99
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Fellow parents--
Thank you much for your replies. The men's prospective is good for me also to read. I should mention that my husband is not a Christian, but he is a very good man----honest, ethical, etc.
Of course, my young 13 year old thinks she did nothing wrong and can't see potential problems because she is 13---& immature. She states that many girls give guys "boxers". I really don't think this is true==is it?
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RE: teenagers gifts - 11/14/2008 8:57:37 PM
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manda59
Posts: 6160
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From: Hampshire, UK
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quote:
ORIGINAL: momtrying99
Of course, my young 13 year old thinks she did nothing wrong and can't see potential problems because she is 13---& immature. She states that many girls give guys "boxers". I really don't think this is true==is it?
My daughter is 15 and would be shocked at the thought of it.
Could I just ask where your daughter got the money from for these and when she had the opportunity to even go out and buy them?
I wonder also how she knew what size he took.
_____________________________
"Manda is right"
mvic, January 2009
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RE: teenagers gifts - 11/14/2008 9:05:09 PM
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pbaribeault
Posts: 1097
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I think it's true, that many girls give guys boxers... but the problem isn't that she misjudged a gift (or not)... the problem is that she did something (anything) that you had specifically forbidden her to do. You won't be able to convince her that the boxers-as-a-gift were somehow ethically or empirically wrong, even if every other mother on the planet agrees with your perspective. (And you don't need to.)
The point is that you are her mother, you are in charge of her purchasing decision, and you had instructed her, based solely on your own personal judgment not to buy that item... and she did it anyways. What she needs to learn here is that your judgment is good enough, with or without her 'vote' considered, and that she doesn't have to agree with you to obey you. And that if she chooses to disobey, no matter how good her judgment is (or isn't) there will be consequences.
What that means is that she is going to disobey you by spending on an unauthorized item, she will not recieve any allowance until she meets the following conditions: the action of disobedient spending is 'redeemed' by obedient spending. You require her to select a charity (subject to your approval) and donate twice the cost of the boxers to that charity. This proves in action that she is willing to spend where you say she has to.
After this, she has to convince you that she has no intention of spending disobediently again -- so she could write and sign a letter saying that she understands she was wrong to disobey your instructions regarding her spending, and she will seek your permission for any spending outside of normal life small expenses. Then you put in a procedure where she has to show you a record of what she has spent each week before receiving allowance, and you check it for anything you don't approve of. She signs that she will keep that record honestly and that she acknowledges your right to see it.
She could agree and do all that tomorrow and not miss any allowance, or she can insist she did nothing wrong and do without your money for weeks or months. The consiquence does the lecturing for you. If she doesn't want to obey you with her money, she gets none. No yelling, no tears, no problem... It's her decision.
Clearly you are concerned about gifts and their place in male-female relationships. When you talk to her (in a few weeks) about her new limits and procedures regarding friends that are guys, you might want to specifically say that any gifts she wants to give must be approved beforehand, and that any gifts she receives must also be approved by you. Or even that she is not allowed to buy or give gifts to any male friend. Either would be an appropriate limit for a 13 year old with poor gift selection skills.
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RE: teenagers gifts - 11/14/2008 11:50:46 PM
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29redballoons
Posts: 665
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Georgia
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Okay, my problem would not be with the gift...my daughter has bought them, and I have bought them for others besides my husband...
cute/funny ones like mentioned previously. I/We were not imagining the people wearing them, nor having romantic inappropriate
thoughts...just thought they were cute and fit the person's personality. My problems with my daughter would be...
Why did she buy them after I said not to....
Where did the money come from...
and, to me most importantly....
how did she get to a store to purchase them without parental supervision????
My daughter at 13 was not out of mine or my hubby's sight unless with other trusted adults.
Shadowspring, I am sorry for your situation, but as a parent...I appreciate your honesty and advice. It reenforces our beliefs in chaperoned courting.
Thank you again for your honesty and willingness to share your pain.
_____________________________
Red
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RE: teenagers gifts - 11/15/2008 7:31:11 AM
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csl7037
Posts: 2062
Joined: 3/24/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 29redballoons
My problems with my daughter would be...
Why did she buy them after I said not to....
Where did the money come from...
and, to me most importantly....
how did she get to a store to purchase them without parental supervision????
My daughter at 13 was not out of mine or my hubby's sight unless with other trusted adults.
This is where I am as well. Did she buy them after you told her not to. Did you adivise against it or tell her not to?
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RE: teenagers gifts - 11/15/2008 1:15:41 PM
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Ellie-Mae
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From: The EMPIRE state!
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I just asked my 13 year old son how he would have felt if a girl gave him boxers. He said that would be very odd (I think he had trouble picturing it happening). I asked him if he would buy PJ's (trying to think of something somewhat similar) for a girl as a gift. He said that he just wouldn't... "it just doesn't seem right". We have never discussed it before, but he could already sense that it wasn't appropriate.
As a mother of a 13 year old boy, if your daughter had given my son boxers as a gift, I would be returning it to you (her mother) myself. I would give you a brief explanation that receiving intimate apparel from a girl (I can't imagine boys giving each other boxers at all) is something that we discourage in our home. What you want to do with it is your choice, I wouldn't give you unsolicited advice about your daughter. I would also be keeping a close eye on the way they interacted and may even restrict him some when it comes to interacting with her if I felt it necessary. Not that I would automatically think that she was awful (sometimes kids just make stupid mistakes), but there would be definitely be a red flag going up.
< Message edited by Ellie-Mae -- 11/15/2008 2:18:49 PM >
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Please do not PM me about this message, discuss it at the water cooler, or include it in your church bulletins. If you have questions, please keep them to yourself. ~Kerrlaw
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RE: teenagers gifts - 11/17/2008 3:55:06 PM
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kohls356
Posts: 368
Joined: 8/22/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: kernsfamily
It MAY be all innocent...and, there may be more there.
I am VERY good friends with the wife of one of my wife's cousins.....she's given ME boxers for Christmas/Birthdays.....because my "nickname" is Goofy (just like the Disney character).....so, if she finds a cool pair of "GOOFY" boxers, she'll get them for me....along with a "Goofy" wall clock, desk pen, ties, dress shirts, sweatshirt, etc...etc...over the years....
Perhaps it was something like that....a pair of boxers that had more to do with "content" (character on them, for instance), than the actual fact that they are undies......and, was just thinking of them as a FUN gift....with nothing else intended....
Sit down and have a long talk with her...and figure out what her "thought process" was as to WHY she insisted on giving such a gift.....then, take it from there....
though, you've certainly got to "nip the disobedience" in the bud....you told her NO...and that should have been it...
I tend to agree with kernsfamily. If she had bought a package of Hanes or Jockey type boxer briefs I might wonder why. But I am assuming these were the novelty type boxers that she bought with some character or other design on them. I don't consider them underwear as in regular underwear just more of shorts. I wouldn't automatically assume anything romantic going on or even being thought because she bought them.
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RE: teenagers gifts - 11/17/2008 11:25:35 PM
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sen10tious
Posts: 361
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quote:
ORIGINAL: momtrying99
I can't believe I even had to discuss with this young lady that it is a very inappropriate gift
Yet, apparently you do need to discuss it. Since she cannot understand why it's badly chosen, you will have to explain it to her. It is an inappropriate gift on several levels. 1a. Did not honor her mother's guidance. [lack of respect] 1b. Did not honor her mother's guidance. [disobedience] 2. Is doubtful that it honors God [would she feel comfortable giving such a gift to Jesus?] 3. Showed her immaturity [acted in self-impulse, i.e. she probably wanted to give boxers for her own reasons; did she want to look as if she's daring and risqué? Or, if she was truly thinking of what he would really like, then her friend may be battling hormones. What 13 year-old boy really wants clothes?] 4. Made her appear indiscrete, possibly even brazen. 5. Was too intimate for the level of the relationship. 6. Other?
How would I feel if my son received such a gift? When my son was 13, he would have been highly embarrassed to receive such a gift. He would have thought the girl was nuts. As his parent, I would have told him that he was right. I might have pitied her, and I probably would have wondered why her parents let her do that. Five years later now, if a girl gave him such a gift laden with innuendo, I would be telling my son that he might need to review what Proverbs has to say about the brash little tarts Satan would send to get him off course. In fact, we have had a couple of those conversations.
There are at least three areas of parenting involved. One is the mother/daughter relationship and her respect for your position. One is her value as a child of God and her behavior as a child of the world. And lastly is her regard for her friend—if the reason she chose this gift is because "many girls do," then she is using him and the friendship to feel better about herself, which is unhealthy for everyone.
_____________________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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RE: teenagers gifts - 11/18/2008 10:31:03 AM
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DaveW
Posts: 4158
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: momtrying99
Fellow parents--
Thank you much for your replies. The men's prospective is good for me also to read. I should mention that my husband is not a Christian, but he is a very good man----honest, ethical, etc.
Of course, my young 13 year old thinks she did nothing wrong and can't see potential problems because she is 13---& immature. She states that many girls give guys "boxers". I really don't think this is true==is it?
I would assume that perhaps it is common in certain groups; and not common in others. How common it is has no bearing on how appropriate it is.
Ask your husband how he would feel if the roles were reversed - if some boy gaver her panties as a gift.
_____________________________
Avatar is Saphira 5 months and Louvena at 23 months!
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