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Premarital sex for divorcees - 7/29/2010 8:40:59 PM
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Scorpius-Maximus
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I am a 45 year old man in a new relationship. Unfortunately, I have been married twice and divorced twice. I didn't want it that way. I did not believe in Divorce but it was beyond my control. One child, product of my first marriage. (She is grown now.)
I've been looking for, and think I have found, the perfect Christian woman, as nearly perfect as one can be. The relationship is fairly new. We have been conversing as friends for several years but have been inseperable since February. Her mother says we are soul-mates. I feel she is probably right and I'm pretty sure she feels the same way. I want her and only her. There is no doubt my feelings and love for her.
I have read the Bible numerous times and I have done my Googleing on this subject but I am not finding answers specific to my questions and I am still not sure I have a handle on premarital sex, as its own subject. It seems it depends on who you ask and the "interpretation" of the Hebrew words in the Bible.
Regardless, she believes the bible says not to have intercourse before marriage so we are not having intercourse. She has conceded, of her own accord, to "other" things instead of intercourse, which confuses me even more.
This position is starting to burden my relationship as well as hurt my feelings. I feel that I am being denied the deep intimacy that I apparently need in a relationship. I feel like it has been okay for her prior relationships, but not this one. I do not want another failed marriage and am not going to get married except after a lengthy courtship. I want to know this is the one but I'm not sure I can stay, long term, in a relationship, without intercourse, after having been married twice, as much as I adore this woman.
I am having some real trouble with this one. Any advice, words of wisdom, point to Scripture, anything that will help me better understand would be greatly appreciated.
This was very difficult for me to post.
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RE: Premarital sex for divorcees - 7/29/2010 9:01:17 PM
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hotsaucygma
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Just for reference, I am a 56 yr. old divorced woman. Do I miss sex, yeah. Is it tempting? Yeah.
However, as far as I can see, God didn't put an age limit or a "except if you've been married before" clause in the sex outside marriage is wrong.
Sex is not love. Sex is not relationship. A marriage based on other than a loving relationship is more likely to fail, imo.
If you need more time to build your relationship to the point that you are comfortable that this is the woman that you should marry and remain married til death parts you, you do not need sex, imo, you may need counseling, you may need more time together talking, you may need any number of other things, but sex is not going to "make" your relationship.
Have you ever read Chip Ingram's (sp?) book "Sex, Love, and Lasting Relationships"? It might be worth the read. (I might have the title wrong, maybe it's Love, Sex and Lasting Relationships, but I would suggest it, it really is worth reading)
_____________________________
Arrogance boasts. Confidence is quiet, it has no need to boast.
Wisdom from an email I received a few days ago.
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RE: Premarital sex for divorcees - 7/29/2010 9:15:54 PM
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CMT8808
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Scorpius~
HSM put it nicely, but I am more bold perhaps. #1 you have been divorced twice, may I ask were they due to infidelity? If not you may not be eligible to remarry.
Not only that if your marriages were dissolved for other reasons you may be putting your 'new' future wife on the road of being an adulterous.
In the books of I Corinth Paul states it is better for us to marry than to burn, so yeah holding off is the "cool" thing to do.
You are to love your wife as Christ loves the church (Ephesians)
My red flag is you holding on to your future wife's forgiven state!
You saidquote:
. I feel like it has been okay for her prior relationships
I agree with HSM that if you view deep intimacy as a way to prove a deep relationship of marriage, then you are mistaken my friend.
Marriage is hard work and something that needs to be worked on everyday and on all levels.
Communication, problem solving, financial, friendship, yes definately friendship, sex is like an enjoyable addendum and not the main focus of marriage.
Maybe you should re-evaluate your views of what love is and start it here<-- The Holy Bible
CMT
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formerly Delete 123
Never Underestimate the Power of God
Romans 8:28, Proverb 3:5
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RE: Premarital sex for divorcees - 7/29/2010 10:14:56 PM
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johnswife
Posts: 215
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quote:
I have read the Bible numerous times and I have done my Googleing on this subject but I am not finding answers specific to my questions and I am still not sure I have a handle on premarital sex, as its own subject. It seems it depends on who you ask and the "interpretation" of the Hebrew words in the Bible. I think the answer you want is not there because you want it to be OK to have sex outside of marriage. It's not OK. You can read the Bible form cover to cover and that fact won't change. quote:
She has conceded, of her own accord, to "other" things instead of intercourse, which confuses me even more. When you look upon a woman with lust you have commited adultry in your heart. What other things? Any sex out side of marriage is wrong not just intercourse.
Pray that you will be able to do God's will in this.
quote:
I have been married twice and divorced twice. I didn't want it that way. I did not believe in Divorce but it was beyond my control. Have you asked for forgiveness for these sins? Was it really beyond you control or was it just easier to let the divorce happen? Did you do everything you could to stay married? It takes two people to get married and I strongly believe it takes two people to get a divorce. How long have you been divorced the second time? We are told to return to our spouse or live alone. Not every one is willing to do that but it is what we should do. Before you get too involved with another woman you need to get more involved with God. Also ask yourself: Why did your other marriages fail? What could you have done differently each time? What is God's will for you now?
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RE: Premarital sex for divorcees - 7/29/2010 10:47:02 PM
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stampinlady
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quote:
I've been looking for, and think I have found, the perfect Christian woman
Stop and reread your words. Before you get into a relationship another woman, have you been to counseling to see why you have 2 divorces under your belt?
And yes sex outside marriage ia wrong and if you have to ask you already know the answer and just looking for justification.
_____________________________
Deb
There is no "cosmic dog whislte. It's gonna be loud folks !!!
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RE: Premarital sex for divorcees - 7/29/2010 10:51:21 PM
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Scorpius-Maximus
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I am in a faithful and committed relationship, regardless.
I have been faithful in every relationship I have been in, marriage or otherwise. I did not divorce due to fault of my own, not that I am faultless. No one is perfect.
Sex is by far NOT the FOCUS of this or any prior relationship but it was the focus of my questions. I do not think Sex is Love and vice versa. Maybe I was not articulate enough.
It is certainly a very important and integral part of a relationship. Top three.
I am not holding onto my future wife's forgiven state. Sorry it came across that way but I do not understand.
Thanks for the read. I'll check it out!
This is a sensitive subject in many, many ways.
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RE: Premarital sex for divorcees - 7/29/2010 10:59:55 PM
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Scorpius-Maximus
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OK, maybe you are right and I am looking for justification. I won't fault you that. But I still want to know the RIGHT answer and do the RIGHT thing.
If I interpret the Bible to mean no premarital sex then I interpret it to mean abstain from sex, oral, intercourse or otherwise.
Here is my confusion with the conflicts in standards by my Christian girlfriend that is dictating our sexual relationship.
I may be wrong. She may be wrong. I want to know the RIGHT answer.
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RE: Premarital sex for divorcees - 7/29/2010 11:03:06 PM
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Scorpius-Maximus
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Thanks ta_mosquito. Printing it out for tomorrow's study!
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RE: Premarital sex for divorcees - 7/29/2010 11:09:17 PM
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Scorpius-Maximus
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Oh, complicated. Thanks, I'l work on this. Much obliged.
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RE: Premarital sex for divorcees - 7/29/2010 11:22:04 PM
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Scorpius-Maximus
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One last thing. Please don't take this the wrong way because I am ever so grateful for the responses.
My divorces seem to be the focus of a lot here. I did everything possible to keep my marriages together and I have had years of counselling with a multi-denominational Pastor and Psychologist with 20 letters after his name. Incidentally, he married me the second time.
I am still learning. I have a good relationship with God. I am not perfect but I have been forgiven.
There seems to be a great deal of judgment and not much forgiveness going on here considering no one knows anything about my marriages. I can talk about them plenty if need be but God and I do that all the time anyway.
I want to learn not get beaten up. (I'm sorry, that's a bit harsh and I don't mean for it to come out that way.)
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RE: Premarital sex for divorcees - 7/29/2010 11:26:29 PM
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reebz
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Perhaps your girlfriend struggles with purity and feeels pressured that since she won't have sex she has to perform in Other ways? Just a thought.
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<<<<<Look! I found a lego baby!
beyond surrendered
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RE: Premarital sex for divorcees - 7/30/2010 12:31:15 AM
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AriaPeaceful
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I won't stand in judgment as I know of my own struggles and issues. No one is perfect and without sin; however, we are always battling temptation and trying to not sin. We stumble, but wish we didn't, right?
That said, let me now be the minister I am and admonish you a little as I would hope a minister would do if I were you.
You should be disciplined enough at your age (I'm 44 this year, btw) that premarital sex should be a non-issue.
While all sin carries the same penalty and same level of forgiveness; some sins bring with them an element of that old slavery we were freed from. A guy steals a pen from the doctor's office and feels bad about it isn't going to suddenly be looking for a way to go steal another one.
But this kind of sin will immediately have the enemy's foot in the door. And for the warning in your own heart, you know that there will be heartache, conviction, and lots of crow to eat with God later.
Come on, now.
_____________________________
AriaPeaceful
Psalm 126:5 (NLT)
Those who plant in tears
will harvest with shouts of joy.
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RE: Premarital sex for divorcees - 7/30/2010 5:57:39 AM
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johndoo
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I have to admit, I was confused initially and even more so now when I go back about the statement of insisting on a lengthy courtship.
The relationship has a lot going for it. It sounds like you both care for each other. Have you considered relationship counseling knowing that it may lead to premarital counseling? If your goal is to deepen the relationship to know if you are compatible and to do this effectively ( and probably more efficiently) then go to a good family therapist.
A lot of insight can be gained by thinking of what happens in arranged marriages. First, the partners are told and taught that they will grow to love the person and usually they do. The failure rate of the marriages is low. Second, they are in a society that doesn't approve of divorce. See how that works? It is amazing when you contrast it with modern America.
So what I'm getting at is reconsidering your stance on a lengthy courtship.
Why?
Why keep tempting yourself?
Go at this more efficiently and spare yourself this conflicted state that you're in.
God bless you for seeking after him and his will for your life.
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RE: Premarital sex for divorcees - 7/30/2010 8:02:06 AM
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DaveW
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Scorpius-Maximus
If I interpret the Bible to mean no premarital sex then I interpret it to mean abstain from sex, oral, intercourse or otherwise. There you have it.
Nothing.
Nada.
No Nookie..
Not even copping a feel. (YKWIM)
No sexual contact whatsoever.
Until AFTER you guys say your "I Do-s."
And I agree that as a participant in 2 failed marriages, you need some serious counseling to:
1 - heal up from those torn-apart intimate relationships
2 - find and correct your role in the failures
3 - determine your status as to whether you can marry biblically.
Do this BEFORE you get engaged.
_____________________________
Avatar is my son Caleb and Leah on their wedding 12/20/09
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Winner of 2010 "best in "He Says"
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Our CD is available here:
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RE: Premarital sex for divorcees - 7/30/2010 8:09:23 AM
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hotsaucygma
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I'm sorry you feel beaten up, and that there is too much focus on your divorces - one of the reasons I mentioned up front that I am also divorced was so you'd understand I "know where you are coming from" so to speak.
But at 45 with not one but 2 divorces behind you, it is understandable that people would want you to examine what's happening there. If you chose the same type of woman both times, is this woman similar? If not, were the issues in your marriages similar, were the main problems over money, being unequally yoked, different values, etc? I dont think we need to know what those issues were, but people are just wanting to be sure you have looked at those root(s) problems so the pattern is broken and this relationship doesn't follow the others. I do understand you want to make sure of that too- thus the desire for a lengthy courship.
I think the sexual activity you are engaged in (from your comments) is already clouding your relationship. Sex is more than just intercourse, and IMO anyone refraining from intercourse but being active in other sexual areas is just fooling themselves into thinking it's "ok" when it's not. Sex is so intimate (1 Cor 6 tells us to flee sexual immorality because it is the one sin that we commit against our own body) that it takes a relationship in a direction it shouldn't go outside a committed marriage. It becomes a focus, taking emotional resources away from other areas of the relationship that need them more during the foundational building stage of a relationship. If you and your GF put those resources into building the other emotional and foundational aspects of the relationship first, take that time you feel you need for courtship, then after making that committment to marriage, the sexual relationship wouldn't be diverting from other aspects of your relationship but would be adding another deeper dimension to an already solid marriage.
Ta Mosquito told you to do a study by looking up "fornication" & "sexual immorality", those will most likely give you all the information you need!
I hope you and your relationship will be blessed and strengthened as you study.
_____________________________
Arrogance boasts. Confidence is quiet, it has no need to boast.
Wisdom from an email I received a few days ago.
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RE: Premarital sex for divorcees - 7/30/2010 9:48:26 AM
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sharonjef2007
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quote:
It is certainly a very important and integral part of a relationship. Top three.
Not relationship, but marriage. Christians all draw the line in the purity sand in different places. It really is a matter of 1. what the Bible says and 2. what God is convicting you to do/not do.
Take a look at Song of Solomon. I love this book and I think it gets way too little attention. To me, anything that happened and is described after the wedding is off limits before. But, that is my interpretation.
Waiting is hard, there is no way around that. But it is harder to sometimes deal with the aftermath of not waiting.
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RE: Premarital sex for divorcees - 7/30/2010 10:33:01 AM
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buckifn
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quote:
But it is harder to sometimes deal with the aftermath of not waiting.
True, and the ultimate aftermath is hell if we disobey God's Word willfully. To the OP think about which is worth more this current pleasure or your soul.
I strongly recommend you connect with an accountability partner at your church and with a counselor who is trained to help you heal from your past relationships. You are not ready spiritually for a relationship with this lady until you yourself are healed.
Right now all you have to give her is a wounded soul. Give those wounds time to heal and then see if you still want to be with her...it may turn out God has changed your heart in a way this one is not even the right one for you.
If she is the right one she will understand you need time for counseling and healing before anything else happens.
You said "you feel you are being denied the deep intimacy that you apparently need in a relationship" but the reality is until your soul is healed and you are in deep intimacy with God you are not capable of giving or receiving deep intimacy in relationship with another. That is true for us all. Marriage is meant to be a spiritual unity as much as any other kind.
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RE: Premarital sex for divorcees - 7/30/2010 10:41:21 AM
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benelchi
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quote:
If I interpret the Bible to mean no premarital sex then I interpret it to mean abstain from sex, oral, intercourse or otherwise.
That would be correct!
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אשת־חיל מי ימצא ורחק מפנינים מכרה
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RE: Premarital sex for divorcees - 7/30/2010 12:01:40 PM
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doinkdom
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The right answer is sex outside the covenant of marriage is sinful and wrong.
Oral sex - wrong
Intercourse - wrong
We have friends who have each been single for over 10 years. They will be getting married tomorrow and they have waited. They are so excited about the wedding...they're counting down the minutes. But it is a beautiful and godly thing.
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Our furball Niko, lounging around...
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RE: Premarital sex for divorcees - 7/30/2010 12:22:37 PM
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DaveW
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quote:
ORIGINAL: doinkdom
The right answer is sex outside the covenant of marriage is sinful and wrong.
Oral sex - wrong
Intercourse - wrong Anything too specific can be worked around - you can find loopholes. It sounds to me like that is what you and your gf have been doing. Let me make it more basic and less specific by looking at outcomes instead of activities:
If a certain activity you guys do (if you kept on doing it to the logical end) results in either intense arousal or orgasm for either of you, it is sex and do not do it until after you are married. Period.
Several years back I was a regular on www.themarriagebed.com where this stuff is discussed in detail. An engaged couple was on there and both were orgasming just from kissing. (sounds strange but it can happen for some people) They thought it was great that they were getting all the benefits of sex (the physical relief and the emotional bonding) without actually having sex. The board members were somewhat divided. Both the Listowners and I tried to convince them that what they were doing was fornicating and making a pre-covenant bond that ought not to exist. I do not know if we succeeded or not.
_____________________________
Avatar is my son Caleb and Leah on their wedding 12/20/09
=======================
Winner of 2010 "best in "He Says"
=======================
Our CD is available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
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